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Post by wiggypiggys on Jun 14, 2013 14:46:18 GMT
Ok I have made a new edit to my post since I answered my own question while making the family trees. But I thought i would still keep my post up as I think it will come in handy if anyone who is starting breeding and wants to see how a breeding tree would go this is how:
Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
The one on the left is starting with 4 Guinea pigs and the one on the right is starting with 3. As you can see starting with 4 will allow you to go 3 generations without having to inbreed or bring in new blood and starting with 3 will allow you to go 2 generations without having to inbreed or bring in new blood. After that adding 2 new bloods will allow you to go 2 more generations before adding more new blood this is of course if you don't want to inbreed at all.
I hope this can help someone, feel free to correct me if I did something wrong. Of course this is just an quick overlook as you never know what will come out of each litter and whether you will need to breed 2 times to get that first generation to breed the 2nd etc. But as a quick over look I hope this will help someone.
Of course breeding is a big responsibility and should not be taken lightly just fault I would add that.
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Post by Kayleigh on Jun 14, 2013 18:42:12 GMT
Though a little confusing i can sort of see where your going. The key thing to remember is you do NOT want to keep brining in new blood as you will never really know who carries what and where its come from. you may also end up with an undesirable trait that is a bugger to get rid off.
I would say start with 4 pigs, 2 sows (can be sisters) and 2 boars unrelated to eachother and the sows. This gives you a wide spectrum of who can be used and where.
Line breeding is often used and often needed to gain desirable traits. Do not breed direct siblings. try to avoid mother/son & father/daughter unless you feel it will benefit the pigs.
Keeping in depth notes are essential for breeding so you know what pops up and where.
Line breeding and inbreeding is often confused with eachother as they are very similar .... i guess.
If you wanted to start with a trio, i would go for 2 boars 1 sow (boars unrelated) as you will then have a wider range of sows/boars hopefully. and not so closely related. This is the slower process as you need to give the sow time to re condition etc after her first litter. this of course hoping all goes well
But we all know mother nature can have other ideas.
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Post by wiggypiggys on Jun 14, 2013 18:58:18 GMT
Oh thanks Kayleigh I was actually hoping you would comment on this! I do have a question would it be ok then to breed together half brothers and sisters, cousins, uncles/aunts, grandparents? Also when would you say new blood is needed throughout the line? Sorry it is confusing but I would like to get notes down on this as I find it so interesting but just want to do it the right way. Thanks Kayleigh I am actually quite relieved you picked up on it If you have any other tips I'd be really greatful!
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Post by Kayleigh on Jun 14, 2013 19:11:26 GMT
Half siblings are ok, but sometimes its trial and error to see who throws the best offspring. Aunts, grandparents etc are usually best to do as they arent too close.
I started my himalayans with 2 unrelated boars and 2 unrelated sows, i have since bought in a another boar but im yet to see what he helps produce, i have a sow due by him soon (i hope) iv been at my himis for 2 years now!
Bringing in new blood i would say the best way to do it, is go back to the person who helped you out first and get a related pig even if distant, from the same line just not so close (if that makes sense)So a good 3/4 generations away from your current pigs.
I am slowly working on my rex, but so far im getting boars...boars and more boars, which in all honesty i dont mind as i LOVE to show my boars, but its not helping my rex breeding haha! So im hoping for a sow or two in my next 2 litters!! (please sow fairy come visit haha)
Any questions regarding breeding just post away, i always try to read up on threads and reply as often as i can. Hopefully the forum will pick up a bit!
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Post by wiggypiggys on Jun 14, 2013 19:33:17 GMT
Thanks Kayleigh this is helping so much I am actually now starting to really understand. Also as a breeder yourself would you consider it rude if I asked to see records of your lines and any illnesses in them etc. And asked if I could have a print out of them to take home with me if I was to buy? I really don't know if it is pushing too far to ask a lot of them questions to a breeder as it may look as if I am trying to find something wrong with their pigs. I know I wouldn't mind someone asking me but I don't know if it is something I should be careful to ask...
Also I have my fingers crossed that you will get some girlies soon but when you start to get sows you know you are going to want boars and not get any ;P Be careful what you wish for haha!
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Post by Kayleigh on Jun 14, 2013 19:43:21 GMT
I dont mind sharing information at all! Its a pleasure to share information and in turn receive it. We were all beginners at one point. And we all still learn, day by day, I myself am still learning and iv been keeping pigs for almost 15 years now! (Yikes i feel old)
My records are hand written and or in kintracks. I keep two copies just incase one fails! I will try to get them put into excel so i can send them. If not ill write a few up for you to see.
It will probably be Sunday before i can send anything as im taking my sister wedding dress shopping tomorrow, and i need to find a bridemaids dress!! Oh yay (im not a dressy lady haha, im more of a dog walking, piggie cleaning, jeans type of lady)
Also note a majority of breeders are happy to share information / experiences. A good breeder knows their animals, their welfare and is happy to share this with others. Breeding isnt all cute babies .... death is a natural part of life, so in breeding things do go wrong, we loose sows, pups and sometimes even both. And no it doesnt get any easier, but we adapt and learn from this. We cant control mother nature, we can only ensure we do our best to make sure things go as smoothly as possible.
Kayleigh
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Post by wiggypiggys on Jun 14, 2013 21:48:33 GMT
Thanks Kayleigh you really inspire me to become a good breeder I would love to meet you someday thanks so much for all your help I am so grateful
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Post by Kayleigh on Jun 14, 2013 21:56:56 GMT
What are you looking to breed? Are you breeding in the hopes to exhibit? I attend many southern shows, Yorkshire, Betley, Cumbria and i usually go to Harrogate (the big small animal show at the start of the year) Aswell as attending the more local scottish shows!
My printer/scanner seems to be playing up, ill have to move the info from kintracks to excel! Or at least try too!!
Sat night or sunday ill send you over an excel sheet, my scanner doesnt seem to want to connect to my laptop (new laptop)
It will give you an idea of what I do for my pigs/breeding. Its pretty basic, but i keep most of my notes in a hand written book that has many a scribbles going through it!
Kayleigh
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Post by wiggypiggys on Jun 14, 2013 22:10:50 GMT
I am mostly interested in peruvians and yes I would love to exhibit the main reason why I want to breed :} But have yet to find someone I can go to a show with and I'm a little too nervous to just go on my own and hope someone will talk with me. I'm in the southeast unfortunately in the stone area and the closest show to me is higham. If I could drive it wouldn't be a problem to take a long drive up and spend the day but unfortunately I probably won't be driving till next year :{ I'm really sad I'd have loved to have met you at a show and had a talk about guineas. Maybe in the future I'll be able to meet you.
But thanks so much for going through all this trouble for me I am so grateful it is nice to meet someone in the fancy who is really willing to help
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tatiepot
Adult Piggy
Miss winnebago!
Posts: 176
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Post by tatiepot on Jun 15, 2013 19:44:43 GMT
You sound very similar to me wiggypiggys! I have pet pigs but want to choose a pure breed soon and would love to attend shows but its difficult (or daunting!) when you don't know anyone personally who is in the fancy or even shares your love of pigs. I have visited harrogate show and really enjoyed it. Nothing beats seeing all the different breeds in the flesh. Starting off with a breeding trio or two is a bit nerve wracking as you have lots of questions. Thats why i love forums like this one and people like kayleigh ready to answer all our questions!
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Post by wiggypiggys on Jun 15, 2013 21:16:43 GMT
Yes Tatiepot! You understand me completely I really want to breed but at the moment first want to care for my pet pigs and I really want to show to! But I am too worried to go on my own to a show. Maybe if anyone down my way goes to higham show I may be able to go with them and spend the day and get a feel with what it is like to go to a show. And I agree I love the forum for this reason as you are able to meet people who share the same hobby as you and are willing to help you as they know themselves how hard it is to take that first leap! You know what would be great for the forum if there was a section where exhibitors could put down their names down to say they are willing to meet people at the certain show on that day and spend the day with them and help them (Of course only if the Exhibitor was ok with that which is why they would put their name down.) And then people could sign their name up to that show so they could meet up with them and get into showing easier than just trying to go and see if anyone talks to you :S Last time I went to higham I left early because everyone had there own little groups and didn't want to talk and I was a little too embarrassed to stay and ever since I have found it sooo hard to go to a show.... But yeah just one of my crazy ideas; at least I am talking to people who understand how it feels and who are willing to help! Thanks so much by the way!
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Post by Kayleigh on Jun 16, 2013 13:27:09 GMT
Showing is very daunting, trust me!! When i first started i felt lost and silly asking all the questions. Thankfully i had a very good rex breeder on hand to help me out, show me the ropes and didnt mind answering my questions. Iv made many many great friends through the fancy, but iv also sadly met a few less nice people. But its the same with every fancy (dog, cat and cavy) you get the good people, and the bad! Im a very good judge of character and got my "hand burnt once" (i didnt listen my gut instinct) never again ... for want of a better expression. 98% of the cavy fancy are wonderful and im gradually venturing out to other clubs, shows etc.
I think the problem is there are alot of long term exhibitors who have been doing it 20/30 years odd, things are changing and many younger people are coming in, they cause a fuss then leave. You need to work out who are in it for the long haul and who are in it to win and walk away.
Talking to people who are in groups can be awkward, but more often than not they (we) are more than happy to speak to newcomers and natter! We are all there for the same reason GUINEA PIGS!!!! we all share that passion, so although we have different breeds and we are all at different levels of experience etc. We are there because we share the piggy passion.
Kayleigh
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Post by wiggypiggys on Jun 16, 2013 19:04:09 GMT
Thanks Kayleigh I see now that even you have met some of the shale we say "bad" puts my mind at ease that someone is honest and doesn't sugar coat it saying everything is great at shows etc. And instead just says look there is bad but the good totally rule over the amount of bad. I will try going to another show when one pops up and I get the time; maybe some people on here will be going and I might be able to meet up with them but for the mean time I feel alot better about the whole going to a show and will one day just have the brave it again. Thanks again Kayleigh i think I have said that 4 times now on other posts as well pfft.
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Post by Kayleigh on Jun 16, 2013 21:09:35 GMT
Iv sent you a private message (i think)
Shows are great fun, i really enjoy them.
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