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Post by jessielynn on Apr 14, 2014 19:09:43 GMT
We had a litter of babies born last night. She was 62 days. There were 6 born and they are very tiny. 2 were still born the remaining 4 are only 40-65 grams. They are very bright eyed, and very active. Moms weight is very very good considering. But I don't know if I need to supplement the babies. They're not skinny. Just small. The 2 that didn't make it were 92g and 87g. So I'm thinking she had a hard delivery. We went to bed at 12:30 and they were all born by 2. there was quite a bit of discharge and the stillborns had some green. My dad breeds dogs and any time I've ever seen green with a stillborn pup it's because they passed hours or days before. Is it the same for piggies? I called the local vet and he said as long as I don't see any discharge from mom that's green or grey, she's active eating drinking and the babies are doing well not to worry. Is there anything else I should watch for? She is not a first time mom. She had a littler of 3 last april and a litter of 3 in october.
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Post by Orlaith on Apr 15, 2014 11:49:05 GMT
They are on the small size for sure. Supplement them if you can. There's a guide here if you need help. Kayleigh is also really good for advice on this. I hope the babies and mother are okay. It's a scary situation to come home to.
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Post by Kayleigh on Apr 15, 2014 12:52:22 GMT
Those weights are small, and by the sounds of things premature too. Keep the pups and sow warm, and well fed, lots of hay, greens and i would personally add a porridge/goats milk supplement too in the hopes everyone tucks in. i would also give the sow ribena (high vit c and glucose)
It will be touch and go for a week or two. Theres obviously a reason the sow littered early, perhaps something wrong with the litter or a fright, its difficult to tell.
All you can do is watch and wait. Do they appear healthy enough?
Keep the sow eating, spinach, kale, greens, bell peppers, carrots and fresh grass usually go down well.
Keep us informed.
Kayleigh
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Post by jessielynn on Apr 15, 2014 15:54:05 GMT
Those weights are small, and by the sounds of things premature too. Keep the pups and sow warm, and well fed, lots of hay, greens and i would personally add a porridge/goats milk supplement too in the hopes everyone tucks in. i would also give the sow ribena (high vit c and glucose) It will be touch and go for a week or two. Theres obviously a reason the sow littered early, perhaps something wrong with the litter or a fright, its difficult to tell. All you can do is watch and wait. Do they appear healthy enough? Keep the sow eating, spinach, kale, greens, bell peppers, carrots and fresh grass usually go down well. Keep us informed. Kayleigh They are very small, but super active. Pop corning and coming out for veggies. They don't act any different then normal babies at all. I feed unlimited pellets and hay, and about 1 cup of veggies per pig at night. I've been feeding more. Last night she had half a bell pepper, some lettuce, parsley and carrots. We don't have ribena around here (ontario) Do you have another suggestion? I'm going to post pics so you can see. They are very bright eyed and active as of right now. two were stillborn so I would assume that's why she had them early? My sows average 61-64 days but she was 62 absolute max. May have only been 58. I got a new phone so I lost some dates. I would give her grass but it was 20 degrees yesterday and now we have an inch of snow >.<
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Post by jessielynn on Apr 15, 2014 16:03:00 GMT
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Post by jessielynn on Apr 15, 2014 16:05:38 GMT
In comparison this is a baby from the last litter, the day it was born next to my hand. And they weren't very big babies. About 75-90 grams
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Post by Kayleigh on Apr 15, 2014 17:32:23 GMT
Any high vit c juice will be fine. I use ribena as the pigs love it and its easily available.
Feed a higher amount of veg as the sow will need it.
My sows usually litter at 70 days (10 weeks) anything earlier than 65/66 days then i worry a little. My pups weights tend to be from 90 -140grams litters of 3/5.
anything below 70g and i supplement.
Aslong as they are active and eating i wouldnt worry.
Feed feed and more feed. Lots of greens for momma pig to keep milk production high.
Kayleigh
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Post by jessielynn on Apr 15, 2014 17:45:06 GMT
I honestly don't think I've ever had a sow go 70 days. Or even 66 to be honest. And I always have big pups. I'm reading about it right now. Would juicing high vit C pig safe foods be just as good?
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Post by jessielynn on Apr 15, 2014 17:48:43 GMT
Another question, could a young boar be causing issues? He was 10 months at her first litter, and this boar was also 10 months. I have never used boars under 14 months but a local breeder said 10 months and up.
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Post by jessielynn on Apr 15, 2014 17:50:02 GMT
My babies are always 110-150 grams depending on litter size. I don't knwo whats going on with these 2 sows throwing small babies.
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Post by jessielynn on Apr 15, 2014 22:42:40 GMT
Do I need to worry about over feeding parsley/kale ect right now? Or is a handful a day okay?
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Post by Orlaith on Apr 16, 2014 8:50:59 GMT
A handful a day is fine. They have a good amount of calcium in them which mum will need and the babies will use too.
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Post by Kayleigh on Apr 16, 2014 19:40:06 GMT
Iv used young boars (6 months and older boars 2 / 3years) and have found no difference in pup size
I personally dont limit any veg for the first week or two. i feed a nice heap of the favourites once/twice a day.
How are they doing today?
Kayleigh
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Post by jessielynn on Apr 17, 2014 14:15:06 GMT
They're doing good. The smallest is now 62g. Which is a 22 gram increase. I think they'll do okay. I don't limit veggies but I wasn't sure if I should limit kale/spinach. I have been feeding about 2 cups, 2-3 times a day or as needed. Making sure they constantly have pellets which I added some ground oats to. And I pulled apart a flake of hay to find the tender stuff from the middle. They're eating and active. I'm going out today to grab some more veggies and stuff.
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Post by Orlaith on Apr 23, 2014 13:42:08 GMT
Glad to hear they're doing well.
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Post by jessielynn on Apr 28, 2014 4:06:45 GMT
Everyone is doing very well, Mom was 850 grams when I bred her and is down to about 790-810 depending on the day. When should I stop giving large amounts of spinach and kale? I've been putting about 1 cup spinach, 1 cup kale, a whole pepper(seeds removed), some parsley or cilantro, about a cup of lettuce, half a carrot or an apple, and about a 3 inch chunk of cucumber in each day plus I have been eating watermelon so they get the rind and celery, sometimes extra depending on the day. Plus tons of hay ( a huge handful about 3 times a day) to make sure she always has whatever she wants and they're going through over a cup of pellets a day (between 1.5 and 2 cups). And drinking about a liter and a half a day. I've seriously never seen anything like this lol. That's for mom, the 4 babies. And a very pregnant sow. And the veggies are split into 2 feedings a day. Should I continue with the spinach and kale or start cutting it down? Babies are 2 weeks old but all 4 are girls so I will leave them with mom longer then normal due to small size.
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Post by Kayleigh on Apr 28, 2014 6:05:48 GMT
I would vary the veg now, cut back on the spinach, greens, grass, various cabbages etc can all be introduced.
You want to keep the feed up to ensure they keep growing and well.
Kayleigh
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Post by jessielynn on May 16, 2014 15:22:37 GMT
Just wanted to post an update. The babies were weaned this morning because mom's cage mate gave birth to 4 pups. They are doing very well and really started gaining this week. I was considering keeping one of them but have decided to breed one of my older sows one last time to keep a sow from her. I decided on that because she's a big girl and the boar I will use is too big for any of my other sows IMO. I've also leaned more toward TSW's and silvers lately and he's a black and tan whicch is what I'd really like to add right now. He came from a breeder that is local and I got him at 8 months. He had already won best in show a few times and is really just a super gorgeous piggy. He is 1700 grams at a healthy weight. My sow is 1400. Now, I've been told that as long as she never has issues I can breed her until she's 3-4. She's about 2.5 and hasn't had a litter in about a year. Her last litter she had 5 and lost a bit of weight (went down to 1100) so I wanted to be sure she had bounced back. By 8 weeks after they were born she was back at her pre-pregnancy weight. Is it okay to breed her having such a gaap between litters?
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Post by Kayleigh on May 17, 2014 8:44:44 GMT
Im glad the pups are thriving.
The only issue with leaving a large gap between litters is if a sow becomes overweight, this increases the risk of toxemia and other issues.
Aslong as the sow is fit and healthy theres no reason she cant breed.
The decision is ultimately yours, let us know what you decide to do.
Kayleigh
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Post by jessielynn on May 17, 2014 15:17:25 GMT
Im glad the pups are thriving. The only issue with leaving a large gap between litters is if a sow becomes overweight, this increases the risk of toxemia and other issues. Aslong as the sow is fit and healthy theres no reason she cant breed. The decision is ultimately yours, let us know what you decide to do. Kayleigh Sent from my GT-I9300 using proboards She is not overweight at all and i would like one more Litter from that pair to keep a sow hopefully. I just wasn't sure if the gap was an issue or not. I'm going To breed her one more time Once I'm done with the current litters. We have 2 litters that were not planned so it's kind of put a halt On things. I bought a trio of silver and whites in March and had my sister pick them up. She put the 3 together assuming the boar was too young To breed regardless of what I had told her. Both were bred. A little younger then I would have liked but they were both big sows so I'm hoping I won't have any issues. Another question. How common is toxaemia? I've never had a sow with it. And I've probably had 75 Litters over the years never breeding a sow more then 4 times. I've gotten very lucky. But I talk to breeders and they say like 1 in 10 Get it. Is weight the biggest factor? I've never bred an overweight sow which could be why I've not had it happen.
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Post by Kayleigh on May 17, 2014 18:26:36 GMT
Like anything we cannot control what happens, some people have very little or no issues breeding for years on end then all of a sudden issues arise. Some seem to have bad luck and have problems from the word go.
Toxemia is more common than people think, the signs are often missed and or mis diagnosed. And in many cases if it is caught its usually too late.
Weight itself isnt the only factor as each pig will be different but it increases the risks. Fitness is more important than an exact weight itself.
We just need to bare in mind breeding carries risks regardless.
Kayleigh
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Post by jessielynn on May 17, 2014 20:15:00 GMT
Like anything we cannot control what happens, some people have very little or no issues breeding for years on end then all of a sudden issues arise. Some seem to have bad luck and have problems from the word go. Toxemia is more common than people think, the signs are often missed and or mis diagnosed. And in many cases if it is caught its usually too late. Weight itself isnt the only factor as each pig will be different but it increases the risks. Fitness is more important than an exact weight itself. We just need to bare in mind breeding carries risks regardless. Kayleigh Sent from my GT-I9300 using proboards Yeah, I like to get a few litters and then retire them. I hate it when breeders just do back to back litters for years. IT's not right. I thought it was more common then never ever having a sow with it, but I figured it was less common than I thought. A sow will not survive toxemia if untreated correct? I've only ever lost one sow after babies and it was a very young sow that had been posted on Kijiji while very pregnant. She aborted the litter between 4-6 weeks and died during. my sow that I'm considering breeding is very active and healthy. If there wasn't such a gap I would not even question breeding her. She's always done incredibly well with litters with the exception of the last one. Never lost much weight, always had big healthy babies that were between 300-400 grams at weaning. She throws exceptionally good looking babies. All of my young boars are out of her. At 6 months, all of the boars I kept from her were well over 1400 grams. I'm really hoping to get a black and tan sow from the litter to keep. I have only ever gotten one but that would be the main goal. Does the risk of toxemia increase with age? This will be the oldest sow I've ever bred. She will be 3 by the time the pups are born assuming that she doesn't catch right away. I've never had a sow litter past 2.5 with the first litter at 9-10 months old, and 5-6 month gaps between litters.
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