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Post by Pickles on May 16, 2014 15:45:25 GMT
Hey everyone - It's been a long time since I've been on the boards. Life has been absolutely insane! Last I was here, I had decided that I wanted to start breeding. I won't be breeding for show quality, because there's just not any pig shows around my area and I'm not in a position to travel to shows. But I'd like to breed, on a small scale, healthy, pet quality pigs. I've spent the past few months non-stop researching everything about breeding pigs - literally I've seen just about every article and video out there. I've even gotten books from the library about it.
So I've got my boars (Harry and Peter - they were the only two I had, last I was here) and I've got my sows now (Kismet and Karma). Ideally, I'd like to pair Peter with Kismet and Harry with Karma. I'd like them to litter roughly the same time, so that if god forbid something should happen to one of the sows, the other could potentially take in any babies from the other litter. I know that sows go into heat about every 16 days, and that the window they can actually become pregnant is limited. What I haven't been able to find too much information on is how long you leave the sow and boar paired together for breeding. I have enough room to keep them paired for as long as I need to, but I wonder if I keep them paired for too long will it make it harder for me to reintroduce Harry and Peter afterwards?
Secondly, after removing the boars, I'd like my sows to remain together until it's time to deliver. I've read some conflicting information on this matter. I've read that you shouldn't keep littering sows together because if one should go into labor early, it will cause the other to as well. I've read that have them together increases the risk of babies being trampled or not taken care of. I realize if I want to know what pups belong to what sow, I'll need to either witness them delivering, or keep them separate for delivery. I think letting them live together as long as possible until it's close to delivery time (within the week of their due date) seems like a good option, letting them litter alone and then introducing the sows and litters together afterwards. Does this make sense? I know in the wild, they live in herds, help each other litter and care for pups, and so on. But I also know that domesticated animals are not the same as their wild ancestors, and thus I'm back to wondering what's best?
Hoping someone experienced can help me out here. I just want to make sure I'm clear on absolutely everything before I take the plunge and pair up my pigs. Thanks! Brooke
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Post by Pickles on May 16, 2014 17:58:21 GMT
Follow up question (lol I have unending questions) -- I was just cleaning cages and let the boys meet their girls while I was doing so. I figured if they mated, fine, because that's who I want to pair them to anyhow, and if they didn't, they at least got to meet first.
So, Harry and Karma got along great, instantly. He was clearly in the mating mood and did his little dance around the pen. I had to laugh because he got so excited before he even mounted her, he shot what I'm assuming was ejaculate everywhere and then looked like "oops". It was a milky white, mostly clear liquid, so I'm assuming that's what it was.. it certainly didn't look like urine. Afterwards, they mounted several times. So, I went ahead and put them in a clean cage together and they seem very happy.
However - Peter and Kismet did not get along so well at first. Peter is my more submissive buck, very sweet and docile. Kismet is not really a dominant sow, but clearly more dominant that he is. He was very interested, sniffing, nudging, licking, but she was pretty defensive. I don't want to say aggressive, but occasionally she would kind of charge at him and body slam him. No biting or real aggression, and it was a few quick quarrels and then over. I'm just wondering, is the quarreling due to her not being in season? Or do some pairs just really dislike each other and never mate? (This sounds like a dumb question in my head, lol) They seemed fine, and I caged them together in the other clean cage and I've been monitoring them. They aren't really arguing anymore, but she is keeping her distance from him for sure.
Just curious - I have a video baby monitor in the pig room so I can watch them to make sure everyone's getting along and no one gets hurt should a fight happen.
Oh and for estimating possible delivery dates - If you keep them housed for a while together - Do you just start counting from the day they were first paired and assume a window of possibility following? Or is there some sign, like when they start showing, I'll know it should be so many weeks from there?
Thanks - I'm sure Kayleigh will chime in here soon and help me out like always, hahaha
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Post by jessielynn on May 16, 2014 19:59:34 GMT
I usually let one boar breed 2 sows at a time. So I have Mudpie and Beaver (sows) in a cage together. I wait until they're both ready and put Turtle in. I estimate the due date from the day I put him in and the first one never goes more then 70 days from that day. I have also heard not to leave littering sows together but I always have. I find that the way they normally breed is Beaver on day 1-3 and then he won't breed mudpie for almost a month after that. I've never had an issue with bigger babies trampling the new ones either. So Beaver had hers april 13th, mudpie had hers this morning. Normally the second litter would be born after the first was weaned but but beavers were born small and all girls so I left them in with her til this morning. My other group of girls is 2 retired sows with 2 breeding age sows. I breed one of them at a time so there are never 2 litters at a time. It would just be too many at once in that cage. The older sows help the young ones and it works out really well for us. I've had pairs that take a while to get used to each other so I normally wash the cage out with vinegar, don't put any toys or houses in. I just give them 2 bowls of pellets, 2 sources of water and a ton of hay. They should get along within a couple days. I have never had a pair that just wouldn't mate. If you're just putting one pair together I would estimate the due date from the day she seems to let him mount. But it could be off by a few days either way.
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Post by Kayleigh on May 17, 2014 9:08:03 GMT
Morning (well it is here in Scotland)
When pairing pigs I will choose who is going where, then place them together, I count 10 weeks from the day they are put together, this gives me the first possible due date (give or take a day) As sows come into season every 14/16 days and are only receptive for a couple of hours during this time it can take a couple of attempts for the boar to get things right. I house the pigs together until im sure the sow has taken. I will then take the boar away and he goes back to his hutch. I breed for quality over quantity so dont tend to have lots of babies due.
I have a couple of breeding boars who happily re pair once they have been with sows, but i also have those who will not repair with old cage mates, so do bare this in mind. You may need to keep your boars apart from now on.
Some sows take to breeding very well, others like to make the boar work for their bounty. It can take a while for things to happen, iv had a pair of himis together for 5 months and nothing ..... I know both are capable as Truffs has previously littered and Soots is my main stud boar, Shes just playing hard to get! If i get nothing soon then i will however place Soots son Theo in with Truffs as he a no nonsense boar and will get the job done (i hope)
Personally i do not tend to let sows litter together anymore, I have had a couple of instances where the sows where close in pregnancy, one went into labour which did set the other off and i lost her litter as they were premature. I also make sure the sow is comfortable, some prefer company and others really dont like being with other sows. So assess each sow.
You can usually see/feel movement from 6-7 weeks into the pregnancy so this can be a great indicator too.
And do remember as much as we try we cannot guarantee when sow A or sow B will take so again, mother nature takes control here.
I am a firm believer in responsible breeding, there are too many people breeding for the sake of breeding and numbers triple and quadruple in a matter of months, iv seen many people become overwhelmed with the numbers and these pigs end up in rescues because they cannot be homed.
Best of luck and do keep us updated, if you have any questions just ask.
Lastly please make sure you breed yours sows a minimum weight of 950grams and from 8 months old. Breeding small pigs will produce small pigs which should never be something you aim for.
Kayleigh
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Post by Pickles on May 19, 2014 10:42:20 GMT
Thank you, I appreciate the replies!
I'll be keeping them together for the next week and then reintroducing the boars and sows together. Hopefully the boars get along afterwards and I can keep them together. If not, I have extra cages for a reason.
Our earliest due date would be July 24, but I'll be sure to keep everyone updated as we go! I have to get a better scale, but I'll be doing weekly weighs for the sows to see if/how things progress.
Thanks again! Brooke
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