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Post by snugglesandrascal on Sept 30, 2012 23:29:37 GMT
Hello,
This is just my second post but it is a long one and it is very urgent. My guinea pig Rascal has a tumor and we are giving her pain relief and will put her to sleep this Thursday (4th October 2012) at the vets. She is still pretty happy and that makes it hard - she is still eating and moving around - but she is very old and it was expected that this might happen at her age (or that Snuggles or her go in their sleep). The vet has said she won't last more than a few weeks and I'd rather put her to sleep than have her decline in health (we are also going away for two weeks this coming Saturday so our house-sitter, who is family, would have to monitor her).
My moral conundrum is this: Do we consider putting to sleep her sister and long-time companion Snuggles at the same time. They are both old, but still very active and happy. I don't imagine Snuggles lasting more than the next 6 months (I believe they are both at least 8 years old). I just don't want Snuggles to pine for her sister and it doesn't help that we then go away for two weeks. We will have someone home and he will give her attention, but is it better to have them both go together (I would not consider this if Snuggles was young).
Finally, if we do keep Snuggles, how do we do the euthanasia on Thursday? Just take Rascal away? Usually (as I did the other day when I found the tumor on Rascal) I take them to the vet together. Should I take Snuggles and let her see Rascal once she has passed away, so she knows what has happened. Or, as in nature, the fact Rascal will go and never come back is like her leaving to go off to die and we just deal with Snuggles mourning her sister as best we can.
Please help.
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Post by lisa21264 on Oct 1, 2012 4:47:23 GMT
That is so sad. I'm sorry rascal has to be put down. I would get a cage mate for Snuggles if you are willing. I don't think I could bear to lose both of them. You have a very tough choice. Sending hugs your way.
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Post by snugglesandrascal on Oct 1, 2012 4:58:03 GMT
Thank-you for the warm thoughts. I have since read that bonded pairs are very attached and it is best for the surviving one to see the body. I don't think we can bring in a new mate for Snuggles. Everyone I talk to feels it's a tough decision. We have until Thursday to make the decision. I just want to be merciful.
My wife and I will be blubbering messes Thursday evening
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Post by Kayleigh on Oct 1, 2012 6:30:40 GMT
Im sorry to hear about rascal. But i must say that if she is healthy apart from the tumour, eating drinking etc then i would allow her to pass naturally. If she is in pain though i would get her pts.
As for her companion i mist stress that allowing her to see her cagemate after she has passed will stress her out nore so thab leaving her home. I personally couldnt and wouldnt sugfest anyone put her down due to loosing her cagemate. She will adapt and aslong as she herself gets attention she will be fine alone. 8 is a good age but she could still have a year or so left in her.
We as humans often put human emotion on animals and where i do believe animals feel the loss, they dont mourn, its mother nature for animals to pass on wether it be due to illness or indeed being eaten (in the wild) mother natures instinct is to get on with life.
So if rascal is in any pain i would get her pts. But i would let her cagemate live on if shes healthy.
Where is the tunour if you dont mind my asking. And how large is it?
Kayleigh
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Post by snugglesandrascal on Oct 1, 2012 9:46:15 GMT
Thanks Kayleigh, Snuggles does seem ok and maybe she will go on by herself alright. Rascal has a tumour in her mammary and it has broken the surface and is infected. She is in pain but currently on pain killers. We could have put her on antibiotics too, for the infection, but haven't. Of course there is the option of surgery and I have read that these tumours can be benign and removed. My understanding is that they are old, so it didn't feel so bad to just opt for eternal sleep over surgery, medicine, recovery. I believe they are 7-8 years old, we've had them a year and love them. Maybe we will keep Snuggles but I've read that they do pine, get bored and may have a less quality of life experience alone (and I don't want to get a new friend for a year at most and then go through this again in a years time). But it is true that nature is cruel and one could have passed away in the night (we certainly wouldn't then say "let's put the other one to sleep" if that happened). But it is also important to remember that they are domesticated now so maybe the rule of the jungle and 'moving on' like they would in nature isn't applicable. But you have offered a really good perspective. What is your advice on surgery - she may not get through it? We are leaving for two weeks this Saturday and would have to leave her in the care of our house-sitter.
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Post by Kayleigh on Oct 1, 2012 11:13:35 GMT
I totally understand that they are domesticated and i myself have often wondered if i have done the right or wrong thing when getting animals pts. But i do feel its unfair to put any healthy animal down regardless of the reasoning behind it. If the remaining sow is handled, given attention etc theres no reason she wont adapt to living alone.
As for surgery its a high risk thing as guinea pigs are so small, her age is also against her so i wouldnt risk loosing her on the table. As she is on painkillers i personally think the kindest thing would be to get her pts. Surgery is high risk but leaving her on painkillers etc is also unfair especially if the tumour reoccurs. If she were younger i would say give her a chance.
Its not an easy decision (emotionally) but i think its a fairly easy decision for the welfare of the pig.
I hope you decide and are ok.
But i would strongly advise against getting her cage mate put down.
Kayleigh Sent from my GT-I9000 using proboards
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Post by Kayleigh on Oct 1, 2012 11:15:49 GMT
Another idea would be to get snuggles a pair of young sows as company. This way you will avoid the single pig dilemma when she passes.
Just an option. Please excuse all my typos, im using my mobile.
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Post by Orlaith on Oct 1, 2012 12:06:29 GMT
Poor Rascal. If she's in pain then it's unfair to keep her on pain relief, so it sounds like it's just her time.
As for Snuggles, if she's otherwise healthy then I wouldn't put her to sleep. If she gets lots of attention she'll adjust, or, as Kayleigh suggested, you could get her a pair of sows to be her friends.
Personally, I like to bring the animal that has been put to sleep home and place her in the cage with her friends to allow them to have a sniff and understand that she is gone. The reason for this is that when I've come home without cagemates before (when I'm collecting them from the vet later if they're having an operation, for example), the remaining pigs act really confused and seem to constantly look for their friend until they return. I have found that allowing them to see that their friend has gone lets them get on with it, and they usually get back to normal pretty quickly.
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Post by snugglesandrascal on Oct 1, 2012 21:08:22 GMT
This is all great advice. We will keep Snuggles and instruct our house sitter to give her lots of attention. He is family, my brother-in-law, so he does know them and will handle Snuggles. The suggestion of two young guinea pigs is a nice idea and I will talk more about that in another thread when the time comes. I do think this is Rascal's time to go. We have taken heaps of pictures. She is just so normal, behaviour-wise, that it is hard. And the abscess, mammary tumour was squeezed by the vet to relieve pressure and the pain killers will be making the next few days comfortable, but without surgery (and age is against her) then the tumour will still grow and cause discomfort. I'd rather she go happy. Should Snuggles be at the vet to see the body or do we bring Rascal home and place her in the hutch? We won't be getting the injection done at home. Home seems better - she'll be gone for a bit and then be placed in the cage. For maybe and hour? It feel ghoulish but does make sense for her to see the body so there isn't a sense of where has my sister gone?
Thanks for all the replies.
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Post by snugglesandrascal on Oct 1, 2012 21:09:38 GMT
By the way Orlaith, Rascal looks like your picture, she's a cute ginger and white too.
S.
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Post by snugglesandrascal on Oct 2, 2012 5:03:37 GMT
New update: We are taking Rascal to a specialist small animals vet on Thursday to get their opinion on the tumour and infection. We were told that Snuggles and Rascal are 7 or 8 years old, and maybe they are, but Rascal is just too damn bolshy not to consider surgery. So this vet will make a call and if they feel it is worth doing, they will operate on her to remove the tumour Thursday afternoon. Hopefully we'll get her back Friday, but we will still be leaving Saturday morning for two weeks, so our house-sitter will need to play nurse and monitor her recovery.
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Post by Kayleigh on Oct 2, 2012 6:17:28 GMT
Best of luck with the vets. Its so difficult to make decisions not knowing their true age and history.
Keep us posted.
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Post by Orlaith on Oct 2, 2012 7:29:24 GMT
Aw, she's beautiful!
That's a good idea going to a specialist. At least if he says it's inoperable you'll know it's because it really is and not because your vet isn't confident.
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Post by kales on Oct 2, 2012 16:51:22 GMT
Sorry to hear about rascal. It's such a hard decision to make and I think you are making the right one. As for snuggles I wouldn't put her down. We like to put human emotions on animals (I'm totally guilty of it too!) but there is no such thing as sympathy in the guinea pig or most animals world. I train horses and I always say, 'love them like people, but treat them like a horse'. It's best physiologically for them and I try to do the same with my piggies. Thinking for you guys! Xxx
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Post by snugglesandrascal on Oct 5, 2012 8:58:20 GMT
Rascal has had her tumor removed and an abscess in her mouth fixed as well. She is recovering well and should come through ok. She's eating but has to be on her own for now. Snuggles and her have touched noses. We are going away tomorrow, but we have someone to give the medicine and look after them. Will post again in a fortnight. But this is the best news!!!! Not cheap, but worth every penny. Thanks for all your thoughts and kind words.
S.
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Post by Kayleigh on Oct 5, 2012 11:43:34 GMT
So glad shes doing well. Keep us posted.
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Post by Orlaith on Oct 5, 2012 14:13:51 GMT
I hope she continues to improve
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Post by lisa21264 on Oct 7, 2012 0:22:55 GMT
Glad Rascal is doing well. I hope she has a speedy recovery.
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Post by snugglesandrascal on Oct 25, 2012 9:01:33 GMT
We have come back from overseas. Rascal is doing well. Back to her usual antics. She has lost some weight and we need to keep an eye on her to make sure she stabilizes her weight. She is eating well, very active and back in with Snuggles (who has put on a bit of weight whilst she was on her own). So it has all worked out for the best. A huge sigh of relief. It is so good to see them back to their usual selves.
S.
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Post by Kayleigh on Oct 25, 2012 10:10:13 GMT
Thats great news.
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Post by Orlaith on Oct 25, 2012 12:32:52 GMT
Yay! Keep us updated with their progress
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Post by lisa21264 on Oct 25, 2012 13:46:05 GMT
I am glad they are both doing well. Keep us posted.
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