To Breed Or Not To Breed . . . .

[Kayleigh]

Evening/Morning Everyone

This forum is really quite quiet recently and I wanted to give it a little umph, I understand everyone myself included is rather busy just now, but if you have a moment please do post a reply to what im about to ask ;

As the title suggest, To breed or not to breed ;

I do not want this topic to turn into a anti breeding thread so please remember to be polite, I understand there are a huge variation in opinions to this, but a good debate is a healthy one ... right!!

As most of you may know i myself breed and exhibit pigs, but i started out about 12 years ago with a pet store pig, then rescued pigs but wanted to explore the full depth of cavies. So wanted to breed, show and exhibit. Its an ongoing learning process but one in which i enjoy.

I have experienced the good, very good and darn right bad side to breeding. I have lost pups, 1 sow and had to help with a difficult delivery, But iv learnt from each and every one of these. Its not about just putting two pigs togeather. Breeding for showing is about selecting the pigs carefully to ensure as best as we can that we get good typey pups.

There seems to be two main sides to breeding, breeding to show and breeding for "profit" (petshops etc) I want to focus on the breeding for showing or ourselves. As the petshop/farming side is as well all know not a nice one.


So what are you opinions on breeding, both pets and pedigrees?

If you have bred, what was your intial experience like?

Please post pro's, cons and ask any questions you may have.

Is there anything that you want to know about breeding?

Lastly i would just like to add this as iv seen it crop up on a few sites lately,

The phrase "cull" a pig, DOES NOT ALWAYS mean to kill. Some Breeders use this term merely to express that they will remove this particular pig from their breeding program.

I look forward to everyones opinions/questions

Kayleigh

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[lisa21264]

I am not against breeding if the pigs are well cared for and loved. I am against people who breed for sheer profit with no thought for the welfare of the animals. I bought a pet store pig before i knew what the problems were. My next pig is probably going to be from a rescue or a responsible breeder.

[lovinguineapigs]

I Have Occasionally Bred My 2 Sows. I Have Only Ever Had 2 litters & Both Times Things Have Gone Smoothly. I Have Never Bred For Profit As The Amount Of Money I Spend On My Pigs Is Crazy!! My Babies Have Always Got Good Homes To Go To Before They Are Even Born. I Am Also Very Willing To Rush My Piggy To A Vet If Things Go Wrong. I Have A Pregnant Sow At The Moment & The Last Time She Had Pups Was 12 Months Ago, So She Has Had Plenty Of Rest In between Pregnancies.

[Kayleigh]

I would love to know the secret to breeding for profit as the money i spend of my pigs is triple if not more than what i would sell a pup on, if i decided to sell any on at all.

12 months is a long wait between litters, i tend to find that sows can gain alot of weight in this time. I hope she litters well for you. All sows condition up differently though and it also depends if and when you want another litter from the particular sow.

I guess like every situation you have good and bad sides, rescues, breeders, pet stores etc, its just ashame that so many are divided by single minded opinions who choose to see one side and one side only....the bad.

I like to hear others experiences and what does or doesnt work for them. Its interesting and a learning curve. Im always picking up tips or information, adding to my knowledge.

Im hoping this topic will thrive and no one feels they shouldnt post.

Kayleigh










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[lovinguineapigs]

Yes 12 Months Is A Long Time, But Im Hoping All Goes Well. Ive Only Waited So Long With This Particular Sow Because She Was A Pet Shop Pig & was Already Pregnant When I Got Her. She Was So Young. She Turned Out To Be A Great Mum & We Still Have One Of Her Daughters.
I Agree That People Shouldn't Be So One Sided, Everyone Is Different

[Orlaith]

I think breeding can be good but there are those out there who give it a bad name.

Honestly (and not biased, really!) I think Kayleigh is the best breeder I've spoken to and I'd love to be closer so I could get pigs from her. From her posts you can see how much care and love her pigs get, and how upset she is when things don't work out.

Then you hear the other side of people breeding indiscriminately and pigs being kept in terrible conditions, but honestly, I don't think those people should be referred to as breeders at all. They have no care for the animals and view them purely as a means to make money. And as kayleigh said, and what several dog breeders have said to me too, it's pretty impossible to make a profit from breeding when every penny goes towards providing top quality care.

[Kayleigh]

Thank you Orlaith, i have a large brigade of fellow cavy breeders/fanciers to thank for my knowledge over the years. Its all about sharing! And of course learning. And aslong as we good breeders continue to do what we do, for the right reasons then the cavy fancy should thrive.

Breeding isnt for everyone and definately not the faint hearted either. When researching breeders its best to ask lots of questions, no one question is too daft.

Do let us know how your sow gets along lovinguineapigs.

Kayleigh

[tatiepot]

I have pet pigs at the moment but i have had one or two litters over the years. I think that as long as you do your research and plan what to do with the babies in advance then it can be a lovely experience ( if things go well) As i only breed occasionally i tend to keep most babies or they have gone to great homes with one of my sisters! I have a sow in with a boar now but already have a potential home with my big sis waiting...she is very excited already! I also have lots of hutch space myself. You should always be prepared for every outcome...whether its a rush to the vets or a litter of 6 boars!lol. So long as you care and love your pigs and plan carefully and are responsible then nothing beats that first litter of mini pigs that arrives!!I find these forums are great sources of advice. Much better than a lot of pet shops.

[lisa21264]

I hope no one was offended by my post. I was merely stating an opinion and by no means was i implying that anyone on this forum treats their pigs badly. Kaleigh if you were near me I would buy a guinea pig from you any day because I know you love and care for your guinea pigs.

[lisa21264]

I really didn't mean to offend anyone and if I did then I am really sorry.

[lovinguineapigs]

Lisa21264 I Dont Think What You Said Was Offensive. Its Your Opinion & Its Ok

[lovinguineapigs]

Kayleigh I Will Be Sure To post Pics & Let Everyone Know How My Sow Went. Ill Post Some Pregnancy Pics When I Next Clean Out Her Cage Kayleigh You Sound Like Just The Right Person To Talk To When Any Questions Need To Be Answered About Guinea Pigs & All You Piggie Family Are Gorgeous!!

[Kayleigh]

Oct 15, 2012 0:33:14 GMT lisa21264 said:

I really didn't mean to offend anyone and if I did then I am really sorry.

Dont worry you havent offended anyone. All opinions are welcome. Thats why i created this thread, to see other points of view from all around the world. And to ask why certain views are felt the way they are etc.

Dont apoligise and feel free to post openly.

Kayleigh

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[Kayleigh]

Oct 15, 2012 1:45:57 GMT lovinguineapigs said:

Kayleigh I Will Be Sure To post Pics & Let Everyone Know How My Sow Went. Ill Post Some Pregnancy Pics When I Next Clean Out Her Cage Kayleigh You Sound Like Just The Right Person To Talk To When Any Questions Need To Be Answered About Guinea Pigs & All You Piggie Family Are Gorgeous!!

Im lookong forward to see pigtures and be kept up to date with her progress.

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[dschuna]

I personally am starting to do some breeding of pet pigs. I personally am not looking to make a profit off it but have many homes already coming up for future litters. From family pets to even some grade school teachers interested in classroom pets for students to learn responsibility. And if I end up not having homes for all the babies, there is always room for them to stay for me it's more of a hobby although I would like to get a few pure bred show piggies maybe someday to start trying my hand at a good line of show pigs. It would be something my daughter could start when she gets older, showing on a beginner or 4-h type level.

[Kayleigh]

There is no way to make profit breeding unless you b2b breed and sell them on for alot of monies. And of course if you dont take care of the pigs.

I dont breed to sell on, or breed because someone wants a pig from me(as they could turn around and say no lr go elsewhere when the time comes to collect them). I breed for myself and if i have something that i can rehome i will and ill offer those interested first.



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[lunapink0604]

i need help bout my boar peruvian, he is polydactyly.. can we mate him or should we stop him to mate?

[neubunny]

Polydactyly is a dominant genetic trait in most mammals -- which means chances are high that half the pups will also be polydactyl. It's apparently quite common in the south American pigs and doesn't seem to have any ill health effects. But it is a show disqualification, so if you are breeding for show pigs, I wouldn't unless he has other excellent qualities that you really want to preserve.

[neubunny]

We (my son and I - his 4H project, I advise) had our 4th litter (planned) just before Christmas (after 3 near simultaneous litters the year before - 1 planned, two oops). We also lost one sow (and litter) in late pregnancy a few weeks before (I like to have two females pregnant together in case I need to foster) - which was heartbreaking. We felt we had done 'everything right' this year (as opposed to last year when so many things we learned the hard way) - which perhaps just goes to show that breeding always carries some measure of risk.

We breed for show, as a learning experience (4H project), as a project to bring us (mother and son) closer together and honestly, because my son adores having (and caring for and showing) babies. We currently keep our program very small - we were aiming to have litters just once per year -- having to revise that plan now as I fear waiting til 10 months to breed a sow (so she has a first litter at just under a year) may have been 'pushing' the maternal age a bit too far. Thinking we will breed the sows from the current litter at 8 months (assuming everything is good with them).

Pedigreed cavies are hard to come by around us - so we started with unpedigreed. But I believe strongly that when breeding, more information is always better -- so we are working toward 'producing' pedigreed cavies (with the new litter, we have a two-generation pedigree) as well as info on siblings, litter sizes, etc. Our next breeding will have to be an outcross though (everything we own is now pretty closely related) -- and while I will look for a pedigreed boar first, I won't turn down excellent quality just because he doesn't have papers.

We don't offer any of our pigs 'without papers' when selling - too many sales as 'just pets' sooner or later end in 'oops' litters. I feel better knowing when/if that happens the new owners have as much info as possible. I will tell pet owners that I think this animal shouldn't be bred (and exactly why).

Currently, in the US ACBA standard only one breed (Abyssinian) includes personality traits in the standard (other than 'not vicious'). I really wish they all did (wouldn't have to be the same personality traits) as personality is such an important part of our interaction with these animals and it clearly does have some genetic basis. Of course, that's probably hard to see/judge on the show table.

[cavylover12]

My opinion is that breeding is perfectly fine, as long as there is a good cause behind it. I would never breed for profit, but breeding for the simple experience and joy of babies sounds great to me.

[lovinguineapigs]

Totally Agree cavylover12

[turtlesmommy]

call me dumb if u like but what is polydactyl? (however its spelled)? i just rescued a piggy and think she my be preggers. i already posted a thread asking about it but trying to find the quickest answer to be prepared just in case. pros and cons and things i should be worried about. i have pigmy hedges and have had a horrible time with them(both rescues and both wwere preggers, one we thought was male and lost the hole litter due to being unprepared, the other we lost 2 out 0f 7, they war in bred and not well treated). i just want to do right by my critters. trust I'm reading and researching everything i can get my hands on.

[Kayleigh]

Polydactyl is an extra toe or two on the foot, usually the back feet.

As for your possible pregnant sow, iv replied on your other thread.

Kayleigh

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[turtlesmommy]

well she is normal then lol. ty for responding to the other.

[hairbear]

I'm addicted to piggies, and for the moment, at least, keeping them 'just as pets' is all I'm interested in. I love to see happy critters, simply enjoying life!! They cheer you up, just to see(or hear!) them!
I wouldn't have had the latest bunch, if someone hadn't have grown bored of them(an adult couple, I may add), and resisted the temptation to go looking for piggies.
Having only yesterday added a new member to the family, I don't think I can ever quite 'give them up'.
I have, beforehand, worked in a large, independant petstore, as livestock manager. We were vert careful where our stock came from, and, as far as practical, where they went! We would often talk people out of impulse buys, for example.
Possibly a rare thing in a shop, we also rehomed pets that needed it, as a sort of 'goodwill' agreement-purely for the good of the animals. Our theory was that you very rarely make money out of breeding animals...we sold other 'goods' to do that, and stayed in business because we sold quality products, with aftercare and good advice.
I had bred and shown piggies-pure and good, healthy pets, for years, previously, so knew what to look for. Suppliers 'in it for the wrong reasons' soon became obvious, and if you stop buying their stock, they stop breeding.
Of course, you always hear of accidents- which does annoy me, sometimes... usually, it's well meaning people who don't realise that a baby son will mate with his mom or sisters, maybe at a month or before, and as petshops(or anyone else) shouldn't be selling until six weeks plus, they often leave them running together, until sold, with resulting surprises often causing heartache, and weak, unhealthy animals.
My opinion is that breeding is fine- but always have a contingency plan- spare cages, talk to friends and family about how gorgeous they are, and educate people to the responsibilities of any pet... Breed what you could keep, for the rest of their days, if you have to. Hopefully, you may breed your perfect little pet, or gorgeous show specimen, and sometimes, supply your local pet store- because there are good ones out there.
Ultimately, LOVE YOUR ANIMALS!!!! The experiences I have had, of over forty years' piggie owning are second to none. Yes, I lost babies, and had problems, too, but to see a sow and her little ones happy and doing well is reward enough.

[turtlesmommy]

i love to look at the pics of babes piggys but am def not looking forward to if my piggy is is preggers and having any( at the same though there gonna be so cute!!!). by no means do i enjoy breeding small animals lol so ill def leave that to the professionals

[cavyqueen]

i got my pig from small breeder she does not sell pedigree only pets ps i am changing peanuts name to vasili after my soccer coach who will be leaving us

[wiggypiggys]

I know this post has not been added to in awhile but I couldn't help but want to write on it.

I have bred Guinea Pigs before and I have came in contact with one Guinea Pig breeder who was breeding only for profit...And I think that breeder is the only one I have ever came across...Unfortunately I was just starting out breeding (I Had already had guinea pigs all my life but wanted to get myself into the breeding side of things) I went to this breeder who wanted to show me the ropes you know? Help me out and get me really started in this hobby. She had about 30 cages in her garage and quoted that she had over 90 Guinea Pigs...It was the most I had ever seen and me not knowing too much fault that most breeders had that many Guinea Pigs and that she was just a large scale breeder. (I know shocking I could be so stupid but I was 14...) Anyway she told me I needed 8 Guinea Pigs to start with!!!! Because I would need to add more new blood as the breeding lines went on...Me being stupid agreed and paid her £160.00 YES £160.00...I asked about the food I feed them etc (Obviously mine had always had loads and loads of veg but she quoted "I feed mine mostly this readigrass and carrots and the odd cabbage..." Of course I was a little shocked but fault she knew what she was doing.) And also she said she didn't have records because she lost some bits and had to start all over again and had to throw her old bits of records out. Once again I didn't know any different so just agreed and left with my new Guinea Pigs. 

When I got home you can imagine I was over the moon with my new Guinea Pigs not knowing really I had been had and basically paid a profit breeder to carry on doing the same thing. I then had my first litter of four shelties...But 2 of them ended up dieing...And much later I had 2 more litters from 2 different sows 1 having 4 and the other having 3. They looked healthy I fault they was fine later on I joined a forum and wanted to learn much more about breeding. I learned about guinea pigs having extra toes etc...Nearly all the baby pigs had them. Later some developed cherry eye...After a while I came to terms with what had actually happened and I was of course devastated...And instantly stopped breeding...I blamed myself for all these years for being stupid and allowing this to happen. I wasn't even angry as much at the person who sold me them but actually myself who had been so dimwitted and not to have seen the signs and prevented this. 


That breeder soon moved after and removed all their ads etc. And would not answer my calls; even today I feel angry about it and wished it had never happened. I want to breed again but I am afraid this will happen again and I never want to come across rude to other breeders by asking if they have records and can I have print outs and can i check the pig back to front and all the illnesses in the lines etc. As if i am treating them like they have bad guinea pigs; I know it is probably in my head but still...I find it scary...And I now have extreme trust issues with breeders as I think they want to make a fast £... 

But yes that is my experience on breeding unfortunately...I don't think breeding is bad but I have yet to find a breeder I can trust...I definitely won't breed yet as I have still got 11 of my guinea pigs from this incident and would never dream of getting rid of them because I owe them that much. They will live with me forever and I love them with all my heart, I would like to breed but still don't know if I can come to trust someone again like that.

[shewolfsilver]

I personally wouldn't breed but that is just my choice. I don't judge others for breeding and I myself used to breed Pomeranian dogs. I quit because it was just too stressful seeing my babies going through that! It was just like when I watched my grand kids being born. When my smallest little Pomeranian had to have a C-section that was it for me and I quit. Now I just couldn't think of buying from a breeder when there are so many homeless pets in this world. I have 5 adopted dogs, 2 (used to be 3 but we lost Tigger a few months ago) adopted cats, and 2 adopted guinea pigs.

[wiggypiggys]

Shewolfsilver I really respect that; it's nice to see that someone can have a different opinion without being destructive about it. Also I found it great that you had bred before so you have experienced breeding but have chosen it wasn't for you and now want to rescue animals. But yes just respect you for that.