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Post by laurensandford on Jul 2, 2014 7:29:44 GMT
In the future I'm looking into having a few litters from my skinny pigs. Purely for myself and not for profit. Any money I would make will go straight back into the pigs 'piggy bank'. I have been reading a lot on the Internet, but have found conflicting info on whether to leave the pregnant sows together. So say they all get pregnant at the same time, can they really have their babies together? As in in the same cage etc. Thanks alot (no negative comments please)
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Post by Pickles on Jul 2, 2014 20:08:23 GMT
In theory they can, but every sow is different and they may want to be separated. Also, if someone should labor before the others, it can trigger early labor in the others which is potentially dangerous for the unborn pups. Another point is that unless you are there to watch them give birth, you won't know which pups come from which sow and thus you wouldn't know who any unfavorable traits or genetic issues came from.
In my personal opinion, I would have them seperate. Another thought is while the average litter is 3-4, it is possible to have up to 8. So strongly consider that before deciding to breed all your sows at one time. If you bred 3 sows you could have upwards of 24 pups.
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Post by laurensandford on Jul 3, 2014 7:27:44 GMT
Thanks that does help me a lot. I may not do it but it's just an idea at the moment. X
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Post by chellebelle on Jul 3, 2014 16:37:08 GMT
In all my research about breeding and my one experience it is always better to have more than one nursing sow. If heaven forbid something happens to one of them or they don't nurse them for whatever reason you will have another nursing sow to foster the pups to. I believe it is better to have them labor and deliver individually with a non-pregnant experienced sow "helper". I hope that helps. Here in the US skinny pigs are very much in demand so I doubt you would have a hard time finding homes for them. I see people charge more than $100 per pup for them, so if you just charged half of what most people do, or even give them away for free you would find good loving homes for them.
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Post by Pickles on Jul 3, 2014 16:52:26 GMT
Here in the US skinny pigs are very much in demand so I doubt you would have a hard time finding homes for them. I see people charge more than $100 per pup for them, so if you just charged half of what most people do, or even give them away for free you would find good loving homes for them. This is arguable. Just because they are in demand and people want them, doesn't make those people any more committed in caring for them long term. For example, here at my local rescue, there are no fewer than 20 skinnies who were surrendered. And charging half of what everyone else charges in your area may secure you a sale, but it also encourages those who didn't want the larger financial investment. Likewise giving them away free encourages those who want little to no financial investment. The only responsible way to breed, in my opinion, is to breed with the purpose of keeping every pup. That way you only plan for what you can care for personally, you don't have unrealistic expectations and the pups you create are never in jeopardy. I've found.. with any of the species I have bred throughout the years that a waiting list with deposit works best. After application and interview of course. This eliminates the impulse purchase, and lets you ensure the intentions, commitment and qualifications of potential owners. Just my thoughts.
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Post by chellebelle on Jul 3, 2014 21:09:34 GMT
I've found.. with any of the species I have bred throughout the years that a waiting list with deposit works best. After application and interview of course. This eliminates the impulse purchase, and lets you ensure the intentions, commitment and qualifications of potential owners. I agree with you Pickles, every breeder should breed with the intention to keep any babies if they can't find homes for them. But there are people out there that would be good, loving, responsible owners that wouldn't pay a ton for a piggy. I think price should be determined after an interview and a commitment agreement. Some people would rather pay less for a pet and have more for a vet later on down the line. Even if someone gets a pet for free or for cheap that doesn't mean they won't take proper care of that pet. There are plenty of people that pay a lot for a pet and then neglect it. That is why there are so many pure breed rescues out there. Charging a lot doesn't always guarantee good homes. If I think someone will be a good responsible home then I would have no problems giving them a pup or 2 for free. I also think every breeder should be willing to take back any pets if the buyer doesn't want or can't have them anymore. At the very least assist with the re-homing process. I shouldn't have said giving them away she "would" find good homes, but that she COULD find good homes.
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Post by laurensandford on Jul 3, 2014 21:29:07 GMT
I agree with you both. Any babies unsold I am happy to keep. Loving homes only. Money is not a priority here. Any money made goes towards food,toys, etc etc. My pigs are spoilt so I'd probably not make any money at all lol. I was going to do 'interviews' and take non refundable deposits so I know the new owner is more than likely not buying on a whim.
I have 1 sow who littered before I got her. She will not be bred from with me. The other 3 girls are only 12 weeks old so still young. Do you think I should only breed from 1, 2, or all 3. I have just read so much conflicting info about it.
Thank you both by the way for not 'jumping' on me about breeding. I was involved in a massive row last night on 1 forum. It is only an enquiry and I know I have a lot of research to do!
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Post by Pickles on Jul 3, 2014 22:19:11 GMT
I should clarify that I didn't mean only those who would pay top dollar would be good homes, nor that those who pay little to nothing can't be good homes. But I do feel that how you "advertise" them influences what kind of people are interested.
And yes, any animal I've ever rehomed or sold has been with a legally binding contract stating they will care for them for life, and if they are unable to, they are to be returned to me. I've even taken someone to court, and won, because someone resold a champion bloodline, pedigreed and AKC registered, Australian Cattle Dog puppy that they had adopted from one of our litters.
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Post by Pickles on Jul 3, 2014 22:39:49 GMT
Do you think I should only breed from 1, 2, or all 3. I have just read so much conflicting info about it. Thank you both by the way for not 'jumping' on me about breeding. I was involved in a massive row last night on 1 forum. It is only an enquiry and I know I have a lot of research to do! I think you should really think about why you want to breed them in the first place. Then think about what the maximum number of pigs you could you care for would be - take into consideration the finances, amount of time you can devote to them, amount of space in your home, and your resources. What happens if they all have huge litters, and the mothers and litters don't get along and can't live as a herd.. do you have the cages and space necessary to keep them all separate? What if all 3 have huge litters and you can't find homes for any.. can you care for up to 24 pups in addition to your current pigs? Do you have a vet that is experienced should there be an emergency during labor? Should the mothers not care for the pups, can you hand feed that many orphaned pups? Etc. We can't tell you how many sows you should/shouldn't breed because we aren't in your exact situation. Only you can decide that. You've got loads of time before the girls will be ready to breed anyhow, so take the time to think about all the what ifs, etc. Curious - how many males do you have/are planning to breed? I see a lot of people putting 1 male in with a harem of females, but to me that seems risky because you never know what defects they might carry and could then pass on to several litters in one fell swoop. Just food for thought. Also if you have more than 1 male, keep in mind they may not reintroduce to one another after breeding. Mine can't live together since breeding because they immediately fight, so I have to cage them separately. Sorry.. I have a tendency to ramble.
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Post by laurensandford on Jul 4, 2014 8:49:10 GMT
I have 1 male. He is my older females son. Hence not breeding her. I will be able to have enough cages, and money won't be an issue. Im my own boss so can take the time to care for them that isn't a problem either.
I have a lot of thinking to do and plenty of time.
Thanks for your help.
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***WheekyPig78***
Senior Piggy
Pigs have hearts, just like us. And they are full of love.
Posts: 231
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Post by ***WheekyPig78*** on Jul 6, 2014 0:28:01 GMT
I would say dont keep them together to avoid stress. But as the others said, it depends.
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Post by misslouieg on Jul 10, 2014 3:01:26 GMT
No! They need peace while they give birth
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Post by Kayleigh on Jul 13, 2014 14:00:15 GMT
Many people keep sows together once bred, and more often than not they do well, help one another and all is well. You will get sows who get very territorial and aggressive towards others sows and then for everyones safety they should be removed and left in peace.
I personally do not allow sows to litter together, it may have been a coincidence but in all my years of breeding, I have never let sows litter together, i decided too breed two rex sows to the same boar at the same time, so this was a first for me, all was going well until it was a few weeks until delivery for the second sow, long story short, one sow went into labour, kick started the other sow for whatever reason and the second sow littered underdeveloped pups, she was clearly a season behind the first sow.
So for me i do not allow sows to liter together for this reason.
Its good to see your doing your research, breeding any animal carries risks, there are a few myths around breeding cavies too.
Your sows are young so you have plenty of time to keep researching.
Kayleigh
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Post by wiggypiggys on Jul 17, 2014 1:14:06 GMT
Kinda the same point as Kayleigh, when I used to breed my first, "first" litter I was told it was "ok" to put multiple sows in with a boar and let them be and it turned out terrible with fights, aggression and one of the girls was so possessive over the boar that she would bite everyone that came near her so I had to separate them. I was then told to let a pregnant sow little with another sow not pregnant present in the cage and it ended with 2 of the 4 babies being stamped on by the mother and sadly being killed with the mum screaming; which totally destroyed me. From then on I let my sows go 1 on 1 with a boar and let them breed in their own cage and I would never ever in a 1000 years let a sow litter with another sow in at the same time. But it is personal preference and where I had a bad experience others have probably had good experience but we all learn from what happens to us and choose what is right for us.
My advice would be make a list:
1. How many Guinea Pigs can I keep. (Have a number for example 25 then try to always think 20, so when you breed think possibly 6-8 pups and keep to that number, that way if you do go over you still have that extra 5. Also take into consideration that the pups you have sold could come back maybe 1 or 10 you need to have space for them too.)
2. Research food and bedding. (Add costs of all food, make sure of weight etc. So for example my 8 Cavies go through a 2kg bag of cereal every week so x4 for the month and add up the cost. One thing that shocks people is the amount it costs to keep cavies it worked out when I had 22 cavies I was spending £200 a month sometimes even more. No way if you look after guinea pigs properly will you ever make money from breeding it is actually impossible, unless you are breeding non stop and selling to anyone and everyone and bedding them on hardly anything and feeding them old scraps.)
3. Space and cages. (When you want to breed *Seriously* You should really have an area set up for your pigs whether it be an outside area such a kayleigh has or a shed for them like I do. You have to understand you can be out with them for 1-6 hours a day or more so if you don't mind being out in all weathers that's great but if you are someone who wants to stay dry etc. Then you need a sheltered accommodation for them. And with cages think of the number of pigs you want, then make enough cages so for 25 Guinea pigs you may need 10-15 cages with spare cages on hand for ill guineas or more then expected pigs; and with the average size of an acceptable cage you are looking at quite a bit of space.)
4. Rubbish. (So one that may not seem to bad but trust me as your numbers creep up and you are cleaning more in the summer etc. Waste becomes a problem you can be taking 1-10 bags to the dump depending on how long you leave them every month, maybe even more. So take into consideration the trips to and from places.)
5. Dedication. (It's not something to be done on a the sper of the moment. You have to remember that this hobby will impact your life, you wont be able to take them lovely weeks away with hubby or the kids when you have so many guineas *Unless you have someone to look after them*...Also sometimes your family wont understand and complain and stress is a given; but in the end it is worth it if it is something you really love.)
6 Why are you doing this? (This question is one I think every single person should ask their self's before EVER really considering breeding for a "true" hobby. Why are you breeding are the breeding to improve the line of guinea pig? Are you breeding to show? Or are you breeding for the sake of wanting to breed? In reality many guinea pigs do end up in shelters and do you want to be just adding to that number for no reason? Yes something to really think about. One of the reason I stopped for a good 4 years, I want to be sure of why I am breeding and put the guinea pigs first before my own selfish desires.)
I can probably come up with 20 more questions for a list but I may write so long that people have a heart attack from my wall of writing, haha. Also by no means should you be "ashamed" of wanting to breed, it is a wonderful beautiful thing but you have to really have a legit reason to do it and not because you just feel like it. Personally I believe so many people are so sour to breeding because working in shelters or owning a shelter you see so many animals come from breeders and you will be surprised at how many breeders will dump animals in shelters because they have had enough and cannot sell the left overs; which in turn has given all breeders a terrible name. Once again it comes to the fact that a few ruin it for everyone (I guess not everyone can grow up from school right?)
This forum is the best forum of diverse understandable people on here who appreciates each others different interested whether it be breeding, showing, rescuing or just having pets. But unfortunately not all forums are so open minded and that is their loss because all of us grow and learn from each others experiences and continue to develop while "them" people stay in their own shadow unable to truly see why all of us are here. And really it is sad because we are all here for one reason, we all love guinea pigs, but some people really cannot understand that unfortunately.
If you do want any help please ask and don't be ashamed to ask anything. We all learn from each other no one should judge people when they know nothing about who they are or their intentions etc.
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